fusion 360 or something better?

[Springer]

Guys,

I spent some time a couple of year ago learning CAD in Fusion 360, Im by no means proficient but I managed most of the time. I never went any further than CAD and a finished drawing though.

If Im about to get my first CNC mills which are all Haas and model years around 2007-2011 should I still be looking to work in Fusion or should I be looking at other more suitable CAD/CAM packages?

 

[Clive603]

Generally not a good idea to make too many changes at once.

Stick with Fusion for now whilst you get the new-to-you CNC mills bedded in and working well for you. Probably take a year to get everything settled and working reliably. At least with Hass and Fusion being popular lower end products there are decent posts out there and plenty of folk on line with experience. Then spend some serious time figuring out what goes well for you, what doesn't do so well and what forces you to use a workaround. Make a wish list and go window shopping.

Odds are that if your requirements are pretty average Fusion will continue to work well enough. Albeit with some things that will leave you pulling your hair out screaming "Why did they do it that way.". Before condemning the package due to such aspects its best to investigate how you are doing the job to see if you are actually trying to make it work in a way that wasn't intended by the programmers. Oft times finding the way it's supposed to work makes the job much calmer. Which can take long time. Took me 6 years before the penny dropped on a loud screaming issue with VectorWorks. Naturally once I found out how I should have been doing the job I was amazed that I didn't see something so obvious. Switching CAD programs is high risk for that sort of thing because you instinctively try to carry on the way you were used to.

No such thing as a perfect solution. It's awfully easy to just "turn the benches round" when changing CAD programs. Far as I can see every one has a similar percentage of issues. Just in different places. The ideal is to pick the one whose issues are in a place you never go. Good luck with that without very long trial periods. Generally in business it's better to get the "OK but not ideal" working well enough rather than waste time searching for perfection. If there is a really serious problem you will soon know.

Clive

 

[Metalurgent]

I ran a late 2000's Haas VF3 for a few months last year. No problems using their generic post-processor.
You can do plenty with the free version of fusion if you're capable of cutting and pasting code segments. The company had the paid version, but you can tiptoe around on it with the hobby version while you learn the control. Haas gets some flak sometimes, but I was flying around on that control after a while., The machine ran 4 vises, mostly brass components. Never had a problem. Most of my work was profiles, pockets, tapped holes etc, generic 2 1/2 axis work. I would occasionally get frustrated with fusion at the sketch level and could bypass most of that by importing a dxf from another CAD program and taking off from there.

 

[alek95]

If all you want to do is simple 2.5 and 3 axis work on your Haas mills, I think Fusion is your best choice for CAM.

 

[LOTT]

Everyone is pro Fusion? Did the haters take the day off?

You can do plenty with the free version of fusion if you're capable of cutting and pasting code segments. The company had the paid version, but you can tiptoe around on it with the hobby version while you learn the control.

Highly disagree with this, this opens up a ton of opportunity for fat fingers and crashes. Especially while learning. I did manual edits before fixing the post processor, and it was a bad idea. Being able to post and go is worth the subscription.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

Everyone is pro Fusion? Did the haters take the day off?

It's hard to keep track of everyone on here. This really should have been part of his original discussion about buying a couple of CNC machines and trying to take over a parts manufacturing business at 56 with no prior CNC experience.

He has tons of other things to worry about with getting the machines moved and recommissioned, learning the Haas control, CNC basics, how to run the parts 'the business' already manufactures and sells, cutting tools, etc, etc. He has some Fusion background. I would step up to the subscription level and probably stay there. It might be a year or so before his tastes and talents mature to needing something more.

 

[EmGo]

I would step up to the subscription level and probably stay there

I'd hire someone. Seriously, running a business with four vmc's to feed, there's only so many hours in a day and you gotta prioritize.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

I'd hire someone. Seriously, running a business with four vmc's to feed, there's only so many hours in a day and you gotta prioritize.

We can't argue about his skills because he has both manual machining background and Fusion.

He needs to know how to program his machines for the small market he's thinking of. He may not have all of them dancing and singing together for awhile.

 

[EmGo]

We can't argue about his skills

That's something that's a common flaw in guys starting a business (altho surprise me you'd fall into that) -- business ain't about machining skills. Cutting metal is the fuel that makes it go but it's not the steering or the brakes or the strategy. There's just so much time in a day and so many hands on a body.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

That's something that's a common flaw in guys starting a business (altho surprise me you'd fall into that) -- business ain't about machining skills. Cutting metal is the fuel that makes it go but it's not the steering or the brakes or the strategy. There's just so much time in a day and so many hands on a body.

If he doesn't know how to do the work himself, he won't be a good judge of a candidate sitting in front of him. He hires some guy off the street that crashes the spindle through the table or a vise. How can he mentor the person, or tell them what he wants done? Is he going to hire a super-expensive, experienced guy to do all that work? How will he know the real deal from a fake?

A buddy of mine has been the victim of this through a number of part time, contract machinists (moonlighting from their day job). From how the machine has been left multiple times, I can tell they didn't have a clue what they were doing.

One broke a Renishaw probe tip, replaced it without centering it and didn't recalibrate a thing. Then he couldn't figure out what was wrong with all the parts he made after that. They were all something like 0.011" off to one side and thickness by some other small offset. He adjusted offsets after probing instead of recalibrating. He then went on to blame the probing system for being inaccurate and bitched to my friend.

My buddy told me about this. I went over there with my indicator and the probe was running out exactly the amount the guy said things were off. The calibration cycles cancel out any off axis error in the probe but, I still dial them to a tenth or so before calibrating. I recalibrated and things were perfect again. All of that from a 25+ year senior level machinist / programmer who used similar machines 40+ hours a week at his day job.

 

[Plane Parts]

Been using Fusion since a beta tester. Keep it. Their subscription with 3axis milling is the best deal you will find.

 

[usolutions]

Your tool only needs to be fancy enough to get job done and not fuck around.

 

[Jaxian]

Ok, I am going to get a ton of hate for saying this but what the hell. If you want to learn Fusion 360 in a very hands on practical way to run a CNC mill go follow the Titans of CNC classes. The old very first ones that were Fusion360 and not MasterCam.

There is a video for CAD by one guy, and then a video for CAM by another. There is so damn much little stuff you can learn just by watching them actually doing it rather than trying to follow Autodesk online classes. Work your way through the ten different models and you will refer back to them for quite a while to see how they did some feature on one of the finished parts you end up with. Great reference when starting by yourself. I also took the Fanuc classes but those weren't cheap. Very good though.

Admittedly it has been years since I have been on their site as it went to all 5 axis and stuff that doesn't correspond to my machines so there was nothing for me. Also when I priced MasterCam which I loved when demoing it it was $13k for 2 axis lathe and 3 axis mill plus some training. Just too big a bite for me then. Fusion still pisses me off on lots of things but not what must be like $20k now with the 4th axis parts enabled.

 

[Mtndew]

Ok, I am going to get a ton of hate for saying this but what the hell. If you want to learn Fusion 360 in a very hands on practical way to run a CNC mill go follow the Titans of CNC classes. The old very first ones that were Fusion360 and not MasterCam.

Why would you get hate for recommending a training course?
Because it's on Titan's website?

I think we can all agree that what he's doing for our line of work and people who want to get into our trade on the educational side is amazing.

Is he a goofy bastard? Yep, but that doesn't mean his material won't teach people.

 

[rimcanyon]

I agree with what everyone has said, you won't find a better deal. However, I have wasted days using Fusion, ending up with a model that had problems I could not fix and had to start over. I've learned the hard way that Fusion is not orthogonal. They may provide tools to modify an existing feature (like moving the origin point in a model), but it doesn't mean that the change propagates correctly to all dependent sketches, bodies, etc. If you don't make changes and your design is built in the right order, everything is perfect.

 

[bigjon61]

I really wish we would add Fusion to the list of the machine tools that can't be mentioned here. It has been exhibited time and time again that they aren't "big boy caliber", falling more in line with the likes of the Atlas and Craftsman etc etc brands. I think it was back in December there were multiple posts weekly about problems with it. We pay big money for our CAD/CAM system like a business should do, the rest of the hobby level guys running Fusion on Centroid controllers can shoot over to the home shop site. I don't think there has been a strictly positive thread about Fusion here.

 

[Donkey Hotey]

I really wish we would add Fusion to the list of the machine tools that can't be mentioned here.

I disagree. I'm not a Fusion fanboy, I am a subscriber but, can't do much with it. I've been on their subscription thing for 4-5 years and haven't done a thing with it. My SW and Mastercam still work and thought I'd give it a try.

Not every business that owns a CNC is in it for maximum throughput. They might own a CNC because they need maximum flexibility in making one-off repairs or parts. They might not have the time to invest in learning both a CAD and CAM package. They might have a hiring pool that is dominated by hobbyists who they can train to make bigger or more complex parts.

If making parts is only 20% of an employees work week, they may never have enough time to get good at two completely different packages like choosing Solidworks and Mastercam might demand. I'm talking about people who do stuff for Hollywood special effects, marketing displays, aerospace tooling, energy-sector repairs and upgrades, etc.

 

[???]

I really wish we would add Fusion to the list of the machine tools that can't be mentioned here. It has been exhibited time and time again that they aren't "big boy caliber"

I'm no AD fan however your statement is simply not true. There are plenty of people doing real work on Fusion. As in most things you will generally only here people that complain about products. Trawl through the posts saying how good certain products are and you will soon see the praise is from people offering alternatives. Very few people will post saying try this it's fantastic.

Like it or not subscription is the future and AD have deep pockets and a track record of working things out.

 

[usolutions]

I think it was back in December there were multiple posts weekly about problems with it.

And after that we had rants of Solidcam failing misearbly for ton of money in January, just choose flavour of the month.

I am no autodesk fanboy, but it is plenty capable for my needs. And not every place has money press go brrr, to justify prices of NX or Solidworks suite. 3-10k software suite is not justifiable.

And fusion post processor is very very nice and easy to customise for your needs, allowing time savings and fat finger protection implemented, where other post adjustment needs other 4-5 figure investment just for someone to have a look. Is it best, no. Gets job done, yes and done good.

 

[alek95]

What are some some genuine drawbacks to Fusion 360 CAM for 2.5 and 3 axis milling?

Seems like the main criticism of the software is that it is associated with the home shop and maker crowds, and that it is sold by autodesk.

I hate subscription also, but can that even be considered a drawback for Fusion when most other CAM softwares make you pay thousands in "maintenance" fees every year. At least with Fusion, the software is in active development.

But I'm genuinely curious to hear what people dislike about Fusion CAM.