Hardinge HLV-H 220v motor RPC and VFD questions

[marinegrunt]

Hi everyone. I recently purchased an HLV-H and in the process of figuring out how I want to power it. I'm completely new to Lathes, mills, etc so I apologize for my ignorance. I've been a welder for 15 years and finally got the itch to get into machining since I enjoy tinkering with metal. Anyways, I've read through many posts about converting these to vfd's or using a RPC. It seems both have their pros and cons. Many of those threads talk about 460v machines. The nameplate on mine says it's 220v and the motor label backs that up. Although, there is a 230/460 volt transformer in the electrical box. I'm not sure if that makes a difference though. I planned on just getting a 5hp RPC but thought I'd ask if anyone would recommend the VFD route since it's a 220v? It's my understanding if I go with a RPC I don't need a separate transformer since I don't need to step up the voltage to 460v.

Another thing worth mentioning is I'm not an electrician. I've wired up a couple vfd's for my 2x72" belt grinder and a round column mills but I understand it would be quite a process with the Hardinge due to multiple motors, speed control, etc. I have very basic knowledge but would definitely need guidance. That's another reason why I kind of planned on going with a RPC.

I know all of this has been talked about many times on here but I just wanted to make sure that the vfd isn't the better way to go for a 220v machine. It's not like it'll be running everyday so I'm not too concerned about power consumption. Although, I know I'd prefer the quieter operation of the vfd's.

I appreciate the help. I know I'll have plenty of other basic questions about the lathe in general and operation so you might be seeing me around quite a bit. I'm going to need some advice on getting the correct chuck for it but will worry about that after I get it up and running. There are a couple Hardinge 5" on ebay that might fit the bill. My lathe has the 5c closure with the threads.

Thanks!

 

[FredC]

The HLV-H has three 3 phase motor. I have used the coolant only once in the last 25 years, but you will use the speed change often. It will definitely be best to use an RPC. Five horse will be overkill unless you think another bigger machine is in your future. One RPC can handle any number of machines at the same time as long as no one machine is larger than the RPC's capacity. A 3 horse RPC will be plenty for the HLV-H and a few other Bridgeport class machines running all at the same time. Not a whole lot to wiring them up, I would wire the RPC into a separate box and be sure to connect the first 2 wires to the native 220 and the added phase to the third connection. If the spindle turns the correct direction when hooked up all is OK. If not DO NOT HIT the speed buttons or it will jam up the varidrive. Reverse the 2 native wires on the first 2 connections and you should be good to go. Or get an electrician to do it and let him know spindle direction is important before touching the speed button.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...hlv-h-chuck-jaws-not-closing-parallel.403816/ Look this link over before buying a chuck. 5 or 6 inches is a good size for this machine

 

[L Vanice]

I hope you got a tailstock with that lathe.

The threaded mount (2-3/16-10) used chucks tend to be less expensive than the taper mount. New chucks cost about the same for either mount.

I guess that 220/440 transformer you mentioned is the control transformer, with a choice of 220 or 440 V input and only 110 V output.

Yes, a rotary phase converter is the simple way to power that lathe from a single phase supply. And, as warned, pay attention to which wires go to the control transformer and verify spindle rotation before using the speed changer.

Larry

 

[marinegrunt]

Thanks for all of the great info. RPC it is. It still had a cord and plug attached so it's easy to see where the power wires hook-up. I'll definitely get some help hooking it up if I need it.

From reading the thread that Fred linked it sounds like I should probably just get a new chuck instead of messing with used. Although, I did come across this one but a new isn't a whole lot more.

6" Hardinge Adjustru 3 Jaw Chuck w/ 2 3/16-10 Mount L-342 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 6" Hardinge Adjustru 3 Jaw Chuck w/ 2 3/16-10 Mount L-342 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I do have the tailstock Larry. I had removed it before the picture when I was wiping things down. Unfortunately, that's about the only thing that came with it. No tooling, chucks, collets, etc.

Thanks again for the help. I haven't posted much on here over the years but I've definitely learned a ton from all the knowledge that is shared. I'm excited to learn this new hobby and can't wait to get everything I need to start putting it to use.

 

[marinegrunt]

After posting that link to the chuck above I said a new wasn't a whole lot more. Well, I can see I was wrong about that. I thought I saw chucks for around $800 but I'm having trouble even finding a new 5" chuck with the 2-3/16-10" threads. Does anyone know where to purchase one? This is for a home shop so I don't want to break the bank but I do want a quality chuck. I just want to make sure I spend wisely because I have to add tooling as well.

Is there a better option like adding an adapter to use a different style chuck? A threaded chuck backing plate?

 

[L Vanice]

Hardinge used to sell only 5" 3-jaw chucks for all their 5C collet lathes. Then, some years before they stopped making the HLV-H, they sold 6" 3-jaw chucks for the HLV-H lathes. All of the lathes were available with threaded or taper nose spindles, so all the chucks, faceplates and other spindle nose tooling is available with taper or thread mount. For the last few decades, Hardinge has sold Buck chucks, most recently with tags that say Hardinge by Buck.

I have a number of 5" and 6" 3-jaw chucks and Hardinge threaded adapter plates to suit. Some new, some like new and some not. All will be a lot cheaper than Hardinge new prices.

Larry

 

[rons]

Better see what's at the other end of that 230/460 transformer.

Use a quiet idler on that RPC.

 

[majohnson]

Mine is run on just RPC from America Rotary. Everything works like intended, no need for a VFD.

 

[marinegrunt]

Thanks for all of the replies. I ended up ordering a RPC from American Rotary and received it a couple days ago.

I'm considering installing the rpc motor in the open space in the middle of the cabinet base. I would just have to weld in a couple supports. I would then mount the box on the right hand side of the cabinet. Is there any issues with doing this? I doubt I'll ever use the rpc for any other machine. If I did that would be the only downfall I can think of but I can cross that bridge when I get there. I kind of like the idea of having it all contained as part of the lathe. I'm also considering putting it in a back room off my garage for noise control but that means 60' more feet of wire and conduit. I don't mind spending it if the rpc is noisy but would think having it in the cabinet would help some. Then again, that's $200-$300 I could put towards tooling.

What do the experts say? Inside the base cabinet or in the back room off the garage?

 

[FredC]

I have true 3 phase now. When I had converters, they went outside next to the electrical box. They were both weather proof so the noise and heat were outside. In south Texas when it is 100+ outside even a little extra heat is not welcome. Up north when you heat more than 3 months a year may be a different story.

 

[jim rozen]

"...even a little extra heat is not welcome."
That's how I can tell the seasons here. When I open up the crawl space door to shut off the converter at the end of the night, and I say "ooh nice and warm in here" then it's wintertime!

 

[jim rozen]

Which one?

Unlike you, I can spend all night running machines in the shop. The disconnect switch has a red handle which has to be in the down position when I head upstairs at the end of the night.
No need for fancy ge-gaws.

Real question you should be asking, is how I'm not smart enought to put a small room AC unit in the basement shop in the summertime....
BTW, these days it's mostly jack of all trades at work. Vacuum technology. Failure analysis. Mechanical design. Stuff's breaking faster than
we can fix it....

 

[majohnson]

A VFD isn’t need to run your HLV-H, the motor needs full voltage from the RPC. Speed control is done with a variable speed belt drive system, which is very efficient since you are not changing the voltage to the motor.

 

[jim rozen]

Yes the motor needs full voltage. Three phase voltage. He does not have three phase power available. Hence the discussion.

 

[rons]

Many of those threads talk about 460v machines. The nameplate on mine says it's 220v and the motor label backs that up. Although, there is a 230/460 volt transformer in the electrical box. I'm not sure if that makes a difference though. I planned on just getting a 5hp RPC but thought I'd ask if anyone would recommend the VFD route since it's a 220v? It's my understanding if I go with a RPC I don't need a separate transformer since I don't need to step up the voltage to 460v.

What does the nameplate on the large electrical door panel say. Is it 220v or 460v? I suspect the the transformer is used to step down voltage from the outside
world of 460V down to 220v. If it is a step down transformer then it is something that you don't want in your installation.

I was using a 5hp motor in my RPC for a long time. Then I switched to a 2hp. No difference in performance.
When I remove my headphones the noise level actually appears to be lower. Makes me wonder why I use them at all.

 

[Jim Caudill]

I just assumed he was talking about the control transformer and that it could accept either 230 or 460 volts. The output would still be in the 120 volt range. The control transformer operates off just two of the three phase legs. I try to always use the two "stock" legs for the controls and only use the manufactured leg for the actual motor power.

 

[andyjenkins04]

A VFD isn’t need to run your HLV-H, the motor needs full voltage from the RPC. Speed control is done with a variable speed belt drive system, which is very efficient since you are not changing the voltage to the motor.

I run my hvlh on a vfd without any problems all functions work like normal you DON'T need a phase converter to run them at full power I use a 150$ vfd that's it . No way I'm spending that kind of $ on a phase converter

 

[jccaclimber]

I run my hvlh on a vfd without any problems all functions work like normal you DON'T need a phase converter to run them at full power I use a 150$ vfd that's it . No way I'm spending that kind of $ on a phase converter

Necro thread comments aside, how did you handle the high speed/low speed winding change?

 

[rons]

Necro thread comments aside, how did you handle the high speed/low speed winding change?

If the stock electrical box is used. How are those cam switches holding up?

 

[andyjenkins04]

All operations work fine i have a video on YouTube under Hardinge vfd power that show my setup and all my settings. I haven't had any problems running it for about 2 years now i just didnt have the money to get a rfc so i had to figure out how to run it without one. Everyone said I have to hookup the vfd straight to the motors but i found a vfd that could power the whole machine including the coolant pump