Ideal Home Shop Mill To Own?

[Michael_h359]

I would like to get a nice milling machine for home/hobby use and am new to all of this. I have been searching for the below on craigslist, facebook market, ebay, offerup and am having difficulty finding something in decent shape in the Southern California area. My question is out of the below if I find one in rough shape what Mfr. or model would I have the best chance of finding parts and tooling able to fix up if need be? Any preferred or ones I should stay away from?

-Clausing
-Burke
-Rockwell
-Hardinge
-Rusnok
-Benchmaster

Thanks,

 

[jim rozen]

Decide if you want a vertical or horizontal machine is first step.

 

[Michael_h359]

Sorry, Vertical.

 

[Conrad Hoffman]

Read everything on Tony's wonderful site- http://www.lathes.co.uk/bridgeport/index.html
Don't forget Tree- they made a very nice mill with slightly odd collets.
The world is Bridgeport-centric. It's not the best mill for everything, but probably the best mill for the hobbyist. IMO, the best mill is the one you can find locally that's priced right and not too beat up. Don't buy a beat up major project or you'll never make anything. If you're too specific, you'll never get a mill at all. If I could have any mill I wanted, it might be an Abene. Or a Deckel.

 

[M.B. Naegle]

I think everything you listed falls into the quality category. I'd be more concerned with how complete and worn they are. That said, Bridgeports, or Bridgeport type mills are kind of a standard for milling machines. You'll never have any issues finding parts, tooling, or support for them. They are a bit bigger than some of the others you listed, but that's honestly a good thing in milling machines. Small machines are easier to move, but often limited in what they can do. Once it's on the floor in your shop, you'll only ever need more cutting capacity, rigidity, and power.

 

[Michael_h359]

Thank you for the input. There is a Clausing 8525 I am going to try and look at no tooling but says its operational for 2k. Any specifics for what to look for to see if the machine was well taken care of?

 

[L Vanice]

In 1974, I bought a new Rockwell vertical mill with the factory power table feed. I also got a set of R8 collets and other R8 tooling, a Kurt 5" vise, a Northwestern clamp set, a Japanese B&S 0 size dividing head and an Enco 8" rotary table. I still have it and am happy with it. I favor it over a Clausing because the R8 spindle is much better than the Clausing's 2MT spindle and I think the overall construction is heavier. Both mills can be taken down a basement stairway, something probably not likely with a Bridgeport size mill.

I also have a Hardinge TM horizontal mill, but seldom need a horizontal. I have a 4" vise on it. There is no really good way to make the Hardinge into a vertical that would equal the Rockwell. Rockwell made a horizontal and also sold the horizontal with a vertical head, making it a very versatile mill and preferable to the Hardinge.

Larry

 

[drcoelho]

The list you show are all benchtop size machines, and are quite capable. BUT, these machines have very limited work envelopes and you will quickly become frustrated with the size limitations, or be forced to do contortions to handle work pieces outside of the work envelop limits. Bridgeport is easily aquired and will have a much more capable work environment. An intermediate solution might be the Burke MillRite which is still very manageable in terms of size, but has a quite reasonable work environment. If you are looking for the very best, checkout the Deckel FP1...harder to find in US, but very easily aquired in Europe and shipped to US.

 

[lucky7]

Having helped a few friends move B-ports and on 14-40 lathe into basements, it’s generally a one way move. New owners of your house if you move better be machinists :-)

Condition and type of spindle taper is most important to me. Prefer 30 or 40 taper for smaller mills over R8, and definable no morse taper or B&S for mill. A good condition Van Norman 16 with 40 taper would be my ideal basement mill.

If in a garage, just get a new Taiwan 40 taper turret mill.

 

[michiganbuck]

OP"S Q: My question is out of the below if I find one in rough shape what Mfr. or model would I have the best chance of finding parts?

Bridgeport is the most common and so the most likely best find parts.
If you are on a budget likely you don't want a clunker that may never be very good..
A decent mill might cost 2K to 8K.
If you know about mills you might get /find one OK for $800.
Power long travel is handy and can be added to some mills.
Cutters Vise and holders can cost an easy $500 to a few K.
Condition is King on any machine...
Mills are easy to transport so a few hundred miles is nothing
be sure you have the room and electric power needed
This one may be OK, easily $2 k worth of accessories.

Bridgeport Mill - tools - by owner - sale

Bridgeport Mill 3phase 220V X axis Servo Products power feed Mitutoyo 2 axis DRO Kurt Vise Collet Holder with Collets 1980's Craftsman Rollaway included with end mills, dovetail cutters, clamps,...

losangeles.craigslist.org

 

[Michael_h359]

I am trying to keep the foot print small as space is limited. How best to check condition of spindle.

Having helped a few friends move B-ports and on 14-40 lathe into basements, it’s generally a one way move. New owners of your house if you move better be machinists :-)

Condition and type of spindle taper is most important to me. Prefer 30 or 40 taper for smaller mills over R8, and definable no morse taper or B&S for mill. A good condition Van Norman 16 with 40 taper would be my ideal basement mill.

If in a garage, just get a new Taiwan 40 taper turret mill.

How does one check the condition of the spindle taper? Also what makes the morse taper and B&S taper undesirable?

 

[Michael_h359]

Space is limited so I am trying to keep the footprint small. From what I gather, all the cool machining is on the east coast. :/

 

[M.B. Naegle]

In general, many vertical mills will have a gear transmission, or belt drive to change speeds. The belt drives (which is what Bridgeports have) will often have some kind of sliding spline* between the driven pulley and the spindle, and this spline is sometimes worn. If you grab the end of the spindle and can twist it back an forth and feel or hear a knocking, it's likely some kind of wear. Same with mills that have gear driven transmissions. This isn't something that will kill a machine, but if you plan on doing any interrupted cuts (say using a fly cutter) that knocking is going to be very pronounced and could lead to accelerated wear unless you are religious with keeping it oiled.

Spindle taper and spindle bearing really need to be checked with an indicator, but if the spindle has any side-side/front-back play, it's worn or at least in need of adjustment. If the spindle taper has visual grooves and gouges in it, it'll need work.

*The sliding spline is because many mills have a quill, or the ability for the spindle to move up and down with a wheel or lever like on a drill press. This is a very desirable feature to have on a mill as without it, it's hard or impossible to use the machine for drilling holes. Most vertical mills have it, but many old old mills don't because it used to be that mills were only used for "milling", not so much drilling. Just something to keep an eye out for.

 

[LocherInc]

I am trying to keep the foot print small as space is limited. How best to check condition of spindle.


How does one check the condition of the spindle taper? Also what makes the morse taper and B&S taper undesirable?

The 30/40 taper and R8 stuff can be more preferable in a little vertical mill to the Morse taper and B&S tapers for a number of reasons. You've got a drawbar physically holding the tool in the spindle vs most likely just a self locking taper on the Morse/B&S which can get a little hairy with tools coming loose/pulling out especially on a used machine where you don't know how good of condition the taper is in and for someone new to it, the insurance that the tool is seated and held in place properly can be ease of mind. You're going to have more versatility with collets and tool holders as well.

If you're going to inspect the tapers, it depends on your experience level, what you or the seller have on hand to use, and how far you really want to go with it. Putting an indicator on the taper is a good start to see if you've got excessive runout which can tell you if the spindle has problems as well. The tapers are going to be a little more important on the 30/40 mills. If they have a decent tool holder laying around that hasn't been thoroughly beaten up, you can take some dykem hi-spot and apply a very light film to the outside of the tool holder and then clamp that into the spindle, or if the machine is powered down, insert the tool gently rotate it to see how the mating surfaces match. That's not a "perfect" way of actually doing a taper inspection but it will tell you if you've got major issues. If none of that is available you can do somewhat of a visual inspection looking for gouges, bright shiny spots indicating high spots, or areas that look like they've been ground down. On the 30 and 40 taper stuff, keep an eye out for a gold/copper color pattern that is going to indicate the tools have been vibrating while in the spindle which could tell you there might be drawbar or taper issues.

From your list I think you're probably going to be most happy with the footprint and performance of a small Bridgeport or similar knee mill with an R8 spindle. They can take a lot of abuse and run for a long time, they're pretty widely available, parts are inexpensive and are usually fairly universal even between some of the different brands. There are lots of great tutorials online as well that cover rebuilding. For examply you can buy an entire new spindle shaft complete with bearings for around $1500. Some of the 30 and especially 40 taper stuff is going to be more complex and expensive when it comes time to service them.

 

[Brian Smith]

Fifteen years ago I was in the market for a small vertical mill. I had been looking for a Clausing 8520, but none were within reasonable transporting distance. Then I stumbled upon a Rockwell just a mile from my home, at a reasonable price. I am very satisfied with it, and as mentioned before, the R8 spindle is great for tooling availability. It fits nicely in my small, packed garage, and its work envelope handles 95% of the jobs I need it for. For the other 5% I have access to a Bridgeport.

 

[Michael_h359]

There are two rockwells close by. One is parts only, the other "ran good before disconnected" yet it was stored outside and now has sever rust issues... I am assuming any machine stored out side is a no go.

 

[Scottl]

There are two rockwells close by. One is parts only, the other "ran good before disconnected" yet it was stored outside and now has sever rust issues... I am assuming any machine stored out side is a no go.

It's not a good thing but if you are in a machinery desert .....

All of your listed machines are out of production so parts would have to be made or acquired from other users.

It might sound weird but I'm wondering what is wrong with the "parts only" one and if the price is low enough to buy both and then sell off the excess parts after putting together one good mill.

 

[Michael_h359]

It's not a good thing but if you are in a machinery desert .....

All of your listed machines are out of production so parts would have to be made or acquired from other users.

It might sound weird but I'm wondering what is wrong with the "parts only" one and if the price is low enough to buy both and then sell off the excess parts after putting together one good mill.

Its mainly just the frame and some odd parts, not sure I would have enough to still have one complete machine.

 

[L Vanice]

The list you show are all benchtop size machines, and are quite capable. BUT, these machines have very limited work envelopes and you will quickly become frustrated with the size limitations, or be forced to do contortions to handle work pieces outside of the work envelop limits. Bridgeport is easily aquired and will have a much more capable work environment. An intermediate solution might be the Burke MillRite which is still very manageable in terms of size, but has a quite reasonable work environment. If you are looking for the very best, checkout the Deckel FP1...harder to find in US, but very easily aquired in Europe and shipped to US.

The Rockwell and several others are floor model machines, obviously too large to sit on a bench. Since 1974, I only had to take one job to a friend with a Bridgeport: truing the surface of a large Enco (Taiwan) production-type drill press table with a big flycutter.

Delta Rockwell milling machines

From that site: "24" x 6.5" and with 3 T-slots, the table had longitudinal, traverse and vertical travels of 16.5", 6.75" and 16.5" respectively."
"The miller stood 73.5 inches high, was 37.5 inches wide and 33.75 inches front to back. The cabinet base was 17.5 inches wide and 26.5 inches deep front to back - and the shipping weight approximately 780 lbs."



Bench mills can certainly be useful for small work. Here is my bench mill, a 1940's Derbyshire Micromill that I converted to vertical by attaching a Derbyshire Elect lathe headstock. The collets can hold 5/16" or smaller shank cutters.




Larry

 

[Michael_h359]

That is a cool little mill. I am warming up to a bigger machine. I might have to hold off until renovations are complete at the house, unless a great deal comes by. Any input on an

- Index Model 40 Mill?