Ongoing unrest in Russia

[SeymourDumore]

There is a movie out.. Ihave not seen it, nor where it is to be seen
[a snip from the interweb]


The Maidan Massacre: The Road to War in Ukraine
This is the story behind Maidan and the beginning of the Russo-Ukrainian war.

Estimated casualties of 14,400 military and civilian deaths during the war in Donbas (2014–2022) is what precipitated the Russian invasion. Most of these deaths were ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens. Effectively, it was an ethnic cleansing on the part of the Ukrainian government, yet the west fails to care or even acknowledge it ever happened.

{may be worth looking into for alternate perspective, maybe not]

Curious ...
You have not seen it, don't know where it can be seen, and yet, you know exactly what happened in the Donbas between 2014 and 2022 ...

Let's start with the ethnic cleansing part, then continue with the Ukrainian government.
You do realize that the Russian separatist were not only armed, but directly aided by the Russian military right?

 

[Matt_Maguire]

I think our folks have tried to put the best foot forward... GW said "I think we can deal with these folks" (first term), then in the second term when asked about Putin, no reply to the press...

Then Sec of State Hillary travels over there with the "Easy Button" to reset relations... BO's second term Russia takes territory & gets tossed from G-8, so back to G-7.

Absolutely no clue what the Donald said to Putin but thought no news may be good news. Then Joe gets in & shit!, another invasion. Maybe president Putin is on some 8 year cycle???

I have "NO CLUE" & Good luck everyone, Matt

 

[CalG]

Curious ...
You have not seen it, don't know where it can be seen, and yet, you know exactly what happened in the Donbas between 2014 and 2022 ...

Let's start with the ethnic cleansing part, then continue with the Ukrainian government.
You do realize that the Russian separatist were not only armed, but directly aided by the Russian military right?

That text is from the movie description. You know, something to give prospective viewers a heads up.

 

[SeymourDumore]

That text is from the movie description. You know, something to give prospective viewers a heads up.

But you've said it your self to have not seen it no?
Here is a couple you can start with ( one I've already posted once )

And one from the immediate aftermath:

Neither one is sucking up to Ukraine, but also doesn't view the Russians, nor the Russian separatists through rose colored glasses.

 

[SeymourDumore]

That text is from the movie description. You know, something to give prospective viewers a heads up.

BTW, the text from your first post is:

The Maidan Massacre: The Road to War in Ukraine

You do realize that the Maidan "massacre" had nothing to do with Russian ethnics in the Donbas region right?

 

[CalG]

BTW, the text from your first post is:


You do realize that the Maidan "massacre" had nothing to do with Russian ethnics in the Donbas region right?

As I read it, That is the TITLE of the film..
Posted for anyone's interest in all points of view. Someone felt strongly enough about events that they produced a film. When Where,How or Why , I can not say.

If you are interested, follow up with the text string and report back.

 

[SeymourDumore]

As I read it, That is the TITLE of the film..
Posted for anyone's interest in all points of view. Someone felt strongly enough about events that they produced a film. When Where,How or Why , I can not say.

If you are interested, follow up with the text string and report back.

You are priceless!
Post something you cannot find, don't know what it's about or what is it's title even ( that doesn't come up BTW ), but if anyone is interested can go and try to find it, watch it, and when done, report back what it's about.

Until then tho, here are my @CalG's words:

Effectively, it was an ethnic cleansing on the part of the Ukrainian government,

 

[usolutions]

I say it is time to call their bluff about this "samson" BS. If they do have some small nukes hidden in some cities the damage will be quite small. (A truly destructive nuke blast happens in the air a little above the target) I would thing there would be global backlash against anyone setting off samson bombs that would not be helpful to those that set off the bombs.

Look at beirut, what happened to city after just 1.1kt of tnt. Small nuke can match that(if it is not backpack/suitcase one).

 

[CalG]

From reading, It appears the ethnic russians in ukraine have issues with "bandaraites".

Who are "bandaraites"?

Not really needing a cut and paste from wiki....

 

[CalG]

The conflict has been a while in the works it appears.....

Ten years ago, in Verkhovna Rada

Ten years ago, in Verkhovna Rada, the US Embassy was accused of preparing a Coup d'état in Ukraine What do you think about it?

rumble.com

 

[Rob F.]

From reading, It appears the ethnic russians in ukraine have issues with "bandaraites".

Who are "bandaraites"?

Not really needing a cut and paste from wiki....

Stepen Bandera was a ukrainian Nazi leader in WW2, the current nazi's in ukrainne have idolized that guys ideology. So anything with a Bandera in front is in reference to that guy.

 

[Milling man]

Stepen Bandera was a ukrainian Nazi leader in WW2

This is probably why he spent several years in Sachsenhausen. It is such a Nazi tradition to send other Nazis to a concentration camp.

 

[gregormarwick]

This is probably why he spent several years in Sachsenhausen. It is such a Nazi tradition to send other Nazis to a concentration camp.

It is inarguable fact (or as close to it as we can possibly hope to attain) that Bandera actively worked for the Nazis conducting terror operations inside Poland prior to the invasion, and collaborated with and supported the Nazi regime.

His later imprisonment was because he had popular support and aspired to lead Ukraine as a state independent of, but allied with Nazi Germany, which did not align with Hitler's ambitions.

 

[SeymourDumore]

It is inarguable fact (or as close to it as we can possibly hope to attain) that Bandera actively worked for the Nazis conducting terror operations inside Poland prior to the invasion, and collaborated with and supported the Nazi regime.

His later imprisonment was because he had popular support and aspired to lead Ukraine as a state independent of, but allied with Nazi Germany, which did not align with Hitler's ambitions.

All that is true Gregor, but let's not forget that the ground he found his supporters on was well fertilized by Stalin for more than a decade.
By no measure can he be called a hero to any of us, but to Ukrainians living at that time he was considered THE hope for liberation from the Soviets.
If that meant collaborating with the nazis, well ....

 

[gregormarwick]

All that is true Gregor, but let's not forget that the ground he found his supporters on was well fertilized by Stalin for more than a decade.
By no measure can he be called a hero to any of us, but to Ukrainians living at that time he was considered THE hope for liberation from the Soviets.
If that meant collaborating with the nazis, well ....

No argument there, but we also shouldn't downplay the extents of his "collaboration" - he was not merely picking the lesser of two evils.

 

[SeymourDumore]

No argument there, but we also shouldn't downplay the extents of his "collaboration" - he was not merely picking the lesser of two evils.

No, not the lesser of two, rather the evil that was a means to an end.
As far as the collaboration, they ( Bandera's group ) were not as much aligned with Hitler's goals ( you've already said that earlier ), instead were more hell bent on exterminating ethnic minorities ( Poles as one of the primary ones ) for the purpose of a pure Ukrainian nation.
Again, by no means am I trying to make light of their actions, only highlighting their motives.

 

[CalG]

a sinking ship

Zelensky said to strip 3 Jewish oligarchs of citizenship; all hold Israeli passports

Igor Kolomoisky, Hennadiy Korban, Vadim Rabinovich -- major backers of Jewish causes -- also have strong patriotic credentials, so president's reported move puzzles some observers

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[CalG]

It does appear that the "worst of the fighting" is soon over. The Ukraine government is embroiled in infighting.

 

[Rob F.]

It does appear that the "worst of the fighting" is soon over. The Ukraine government is embroiled in infighting.

This was posted elsewhere yesterday, and it sounds right to me:

"It seems the confrontation between Zelensky and Zaluzhny has taken on new intrigues

Poroshenko tried to call Akhmetov to convince him to support Zaluzhny and to sue for negotiations

Zelensky is not having it, and has put elections on hold

In any case the military threatened that noone will touch Zaluzhny, or else face a coup

So both players are for now untouchable

Although for how long remains to be seen

The west wants to wrap this up with a Minsk-3, and so far Medvedev, Ryabkov, and others have stated there will be no ceasefires in 2024 including Vladislav Surkov, with his own essay detailing what will happen in 2024

Blackrock, Vanguard, Dupont are desperate to shore up their assets in Ukraine, they don't want to lose the billions sunk into this, and when they see Russia gaining the upper hand, they will remove whoever is in their way to get what they want, be it Zelensky , Zaluzhny, Yermak, and so on, if they can get a coalition of Tymoshenko, Kitschko, Poroshenko, Zaluzhny, and servant of the people aide Dymytro Razumkov, that will be the new government of the Americans

So the plan is obvious, the Americans will allow intrigues to develop, but will not allow Russia to win without their own plans put into action - which would involve sending Zaluzhny as a double agent, to negotiate a Minsk 3

Although noone in Russia wants this deal, if they cannot get advantages on the ground, then they will lose the war - post 2025, NATO will reach the desired production volumes of 155mm, and Ukraine already matches Russia for Drone volume, having enough to spare on individual servicemen as we see on endless Twitter videos, and they also look to reaching adequate volumes of HIMARS, Air defense, EW, and other important factors for Ukraine

So Russia has 2 years, 2024-2025 to win, or if Ukraine survives to 2026, it will be a defeat for Russia, with the only caveat, that if Ukraine take back all their territories, the land itself will be ruined and Ukraine remains a dead country

Although Moscow won't console itself with this detail, as this kind of loss will trigger events worse than Wagners uprising come 2026

IMO winning before then as Shoigu says in 2025, will require breaking Donbass and taking it, and then post Donbass, the Ukrainians are already digging in,

It means the choice that everyone has wanted to avoid since the beginning will be needed : the Gaza option

Unfortunately, if Russia cannot break Ukrainian defenses after the Donbass episode, they will have no choice but to bomb the cities into dust, and take the surface, as Israel does,

It is brutal, but it is the logical way to win , that is if you want to win

If not, well, take what chances you will!

But given what Russia has paid in blood and material, I don't see Moscow surviving if they do not provide a military-political solution to the "stalemate""

 

[Rob F.]

It does appear that the "worst of the fighting" is soon over. The Ukraine government is embroiled in infighting.

A little more:

"Zaluzhny vs. Zelensky: Top Ukrainian General Surpasses President in Approval Rating, by Sputnikglobe.com. 12.02.2023.

Reports suggest there is a major spat between the chief of Ukraine's military and the head of state after the much-touted "counteroffensive" against Russia failed, leading only to dramatic casualties and growing fatigue in the West.

Ukrainians trust the Commander-in-Chief General Valeriy Zaluzhny more than President Volodymyr Zelensky, according to the results of a recent sociological survey, the Strana.ua newspaper reported.

According to the data, Zaluzhny has a 82% approval rating, while Zelensky is at 72%. Likewise, 63% of citizens fully trust the commander and 19% tend to trust him more, while for the Ukrainian leader these numbers are 39% and 33%, respectively).

According to the "Rating" data, Zelensky began losing the trust of citizens from July, as noted by the publication.

In the hypothetical scenario of elections featuring both Zelensky and Zaluzhny, neither would secure victory in the first round (47.4% of voters would hypothetically support the president, and 30.7% the commander). In the second round, the votes would be almost evenly distributed: 42% for Zelensky and 40% for Zaluzhny.

Last month, Bloomberg cited data from the Kiev International Institute of Sociology in presenting different information: according to KMIS, Zelensky's approval rating decreased from the wartime peak of 91% but still remains high at 76%.

It came amid media reports of a growing internal conflict between the political and military leadership of Ukraine. The Economist has claimed that relations between Zelensky and Zaluzhny are described in their circles as "terrible."

In an interview with The Economist earlier last month, the general stated that the situation on the battlefield had reached a deadlock, while Zelensky disagreed with his evaluation.

Ukraine's political leadership denies any conflict between the president and the chief of the Armed Forces. "There has never been any tension between the political and military leadership," said the speaker of the country's parliament, Ruslan Stefanchuk, in an interview with Politico, calling such ideas "rumors."

Presidential elections in Ukraine are scheduled for March 2024. According to Ukrainian legislation, holding elections is impossible under the current martial law. Zelensky stated recently that he is prepared to hold elections, but the majority of Ukrainians are against it.

The Russian leadership has repeatedly spoken about the failure of Kiev's counteroffensive and significant losses for Ukraine. The day before, Russia's defense minister stated that since the beginning of the counteroffensive, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have lost more than 125,000 people and 16,000 units of weapons.

https://sputnikglobe.com/20231202/z...-president-in-approval-rating-1115345819.html"

and this as a follow up:

"Zaluzhny Talking Peace With Russia Behind Zelensky and Biden’s Backs: Sy Hersh, by Ilya Tsukanov for Sputnikglobe.com 12.01.2023.

https://sputnikglobe.com/20231201/zaluzhny-talking-peace-with-russia-behind-zelensky-and-bidens-backs-sy-hersh-1115333803.html

The full story apparently states that these alleged Gerasimov-Zalnazi "talks" has Gerasimov agreeing in principle to Ukropistan joining NATO as long as they commit to allowing no foreign forces on Ukropi territory Suspect

No chance that such a thing will ever happen, and of course Gerasimov has absolutely ZERO authority from the Russian gov to negotiate any such thing. This tells me that the story is based on misinfo.

Maybe its part of a psyop intended to sow extra distrust between Zelly Coke Boy and Zully Bandera Lover? Those two clearly hate each other and very much want the others demise, but they are currently blocked by the other factions supporters and can't act decisely."