OT - Gun Control

[thermite]

Because it’s next to impossible to get Armalites or AK47 type weapons in England. Just get caught owning one of those and it’s very serious jail time. I‘m careful to say England and not the UK because you guys were kind enough to supply the IRA terrorists/freedom fighters in Northern Ireland with plenty of Armalites back in the day.

Regards Tyrone.

Well.. THIS.. is part of the "problem'. It is "next to impossible" .. only for law-abiding citizens.

What those who think a bit of LEGISLATION can fix conveniently overlook is that we are JUST NOT dealing with folks who perceive the world as we do.

"By definition.." criminals (already), "terrorist" or 'wannabees' - in at least THEIR warped minds, do NOT respect a(ny) "Law".

So for THEM.. it is NOT "next to impossible" at all.

Only expensive, tedious, or both.. but a risk they pay no mind to.

(More) laws "on the books" won't alter that defiance on THEIR part atall.

They have to be FOUND OUT.. then "dealt with" BY law ENFORCEMENT.

In the UK, "many eyes" that quietly place a call and rat them out can work. No need for the whole population to wander about armed to the teeth.

Too soon we forget that the AVERAGE population density of Blighty is more crowded per sq area than Peoples Ripofflick of China. Look it up!

USA? Law enforcement can be "too far way" MOST of the time.

We need to rely on other persons "of good will" coming to our aid.
Or our own efforts.

Horses for courses..

 

[DDoug]

England doesn't have a gun problem, they now have a Knife problem.

 

[standardparts]

What's so hard about understanding that when a person can drive to the state next door, load up with 20 or more weapons with just a driver's license and a credit card, then drive home and sell the guns for a significant profit that there's going to be more deaths and crime due to those guns?

And how do you stop that? By limiting the purchases, by installing a waiting period to collect those weapons, and by making it a SIGNIFICANT crime with MAJOR penalties (10 years each instance?) to sell guns to unlicensed, unverified buyers.

You pose a good question---"And how do you stop that" (multiple firearm purchases for resale).

Actually that is part of the ATF mission. The laws are on the books and the ATF most certainly is able to track weapons used in crimes back to the source. What happens after that turns out to be rather disappointing:

Their Guns Fueled Chicago Crime. When They Broke the Law, The ATF Went Easy.

A report from the Chicago mayor’s office named gun stores whose wares consistently wound up in city crimes. ATF records show the agency was lenient.

www.thetrace.org

 

[thermite]

England doesn't have a gun problem, they now have a Knife problem.

Far worse the 'strong arm' thuggery and heavy BOOTS problem, Doug.

So called "petty" crimes, muggings, beatings, petty theivery and burglery are atrociously stone-age.

 

[DDoug]

I predict England's next ban will be for string.
1. You'll not be able to own, posses or even consider purchasing a piece of string longer than 6".
2. Any length of string cannot contain a finger sized loop at either or both ends.
This law is to stamp out all strangulation attempts.

Tape measure's, normal or with a belt loop are next up for consideration,
along with electrical, pipe, duct, or painters tape.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

England doesn't have a gun problem, they now have a Knife problem.

Not really. Just wannabe gangsters/ amateur pharmaceutical entrepreneurs having a beef. I’m more likely to stab myself opening a jar of jam than I’m likely to get stabbed out in public. When they invent an AK47 Knife I’ll start worrying.

Regards Tyrone.

 

[standardparts]

Because it’s next to impossible to get Armalites or AK47 type weapons in England. Just get caught owning one of those and it’s very serious jail time. I‘m careful to say England and not the UK because you guys were kind enough to supply the IRA terrorists/freedom fighters in Northern Ireland with plenty of Armalites back in the day.

Regards Tyrone.

It's likely that past issues with the IRA and current terrorism issues in Britain are handled by the likes of the SAS and no one will ever know the extent of the threat. Not a bad thing.

 

[thermite]

It's likely that past issues with the IRA and current terrorism issues in Britain are handled by the likes of the SAS and no one will ever know the extent of the threat. Not a bad thing.

Not so much "the Regiment", but "close enough". Treat yerself to a cigar.

Not to forget the "IRA" was generally 90% lucrative crime, 8 percent spiteful revenge & vendetta......... and only about two percent "politics" ......from Big-Bang onward.

See also "Serbia".

Nature of the 'players', y'see.

 

[Scottl]

You pose a good question---"And how do you stop that" (multiple firearm purchases for resale).

Actually that is part of the ATF mission. The laws are on the books and the ATF most certainly is able to track weapons used in crimes back to the source. What happens after that turns out to be rather disappointing:

Their Guns Fueled Chicago Crime. When They Broke the Law, The ATF Went Easy.

A report from the Chicago mayor’s office named gun stores whose wares consistently wound up in city crimes. ATF records show the agency was lenient.

www.thetrace.org

And that goes to the heart of the matter. What F'in good are strict laws when the people who are supposed to enforce them allow serious violations like that? And worse yet, ordinary FFL dealers who make minor mistakes are often severely dealt with.

If a person had a suspicious mind they might almost suspect that a lot of bad stuff was allowed to happen because the people in power use it to further an agenda. Of course we know that couldn't possibly be true because government exists for our benefit and only does good things and always tells the truth.

 

[standardparts]

What's so hard about understanding that when a person can drive to the state next door, load up with 20 or more weapons with just a driver's license and a credit card, then drive home and sell the guns for a significant profit that there's going to be more deaths and crime due to those guns?

And how do you stop that? By limiting the purchases, by installing a waiting period to collect those weapons, and by making it a SIGNIFICANT crime with MAJOR penalties (10 years each instance?) to sell guns to unlicensed, unverified buyers.

"making it a SIGNIFICANT crime with MAJOR penalties (10 years each instance?) to sell guns to unlicensed, unverified buyers."

The law(s) are already on the books in Illinois. Let's use your figure of 20 firearms illegally sold/transferred:

11 to 20 Firearms

Class X Felony

6 to 40 years

Up to $25,000

Of course there are higher penalties that can be added. Anyway, the laws are on the books.

Will County Unlawful Weapon Sale Defense Attorney | Orland Park Criminal Firearm Delivery | Illinois

To discuss an unlawful sale or delivery of a firearm criminal charge with a Will County, Illinois defense attorney, call us in Orland Park at [[phone]].

www.issalawoffices.com

 

[Freedommachine]

Let us not forget that the US federal government knowingly allowed firearms to be purchased from FFL dealers and sold to Mexican cartel members which used one of these weapons to murder a boarder patrol agent. Obama and holder hid information about this operation from congress under "executive privilege".

Let us also remember that the feds are STILL DOING IT.

 

[Milland]

England doesn't have a gun problem, they now have a Knife problem.

And 1/3rd the homicide death rate per capita as America.

Deadly knife crime: How does London compare to New York?

Deadly knife crime: How does London compare to New York?

www.euronews.com

"There were 17,284 homicides in the US in 2017, giving a rate of 5.3 per 100,000. In Britain, there were 785 in financial year 2017/18 — the nearest equivalent time period — giving a rate of 1.8 per 100,000, some three times lower."

I'll take a 3x chance of living though an attack, thank you...

 

[standardparts]

And that goes to the heart of the matter. What F'in good are strict laws when the people who are supposed to enforce them allow serious violations like that? And worse yet, ordinary FFL dealers who make minor mistakes are often severely dealt with.

If a person had a suspicious mind they might almost suspect that a lot of bad stuff was allowed to happen because the people in power use it to further an agenda. Of course we know that couldn't possibly be true because government exists for our benefit and only does good things and always tells the truth.

FFL dealers, especially small ones are often unable or unwilling to mount a legal challenge to the ATF. I would say that if the ATF gets to the point in demanding a dealer surrender their FFL they probably have been lax and not paying attention.

 

[standardparts]

And 1/3rd the homicide death rate per capita as America.

Deadly knife crime: How does London compare to New York?

Deadly knife crime: How does London compare to New York?

www.euronews.com

"There were 17,284 homicides in the US in 2017, giving a rate of 5.3 per 100,000. In Britain, there were 785 in financial year 2017/18 — the nearest equivalent time period — giving a rate of 1.8 per 100,000, some three times lower."

I'll take a 3x chance of living though an attack, thank you...

Milland...I don't know about the knife attack thing but to each his own I guess.

Anway-----Any comment of something new in the way of laws and sentencing that may stop or slow firearm violence--over and above what's already on the books?

 

[Milland]

Let us not forget that the US federal government knowingly allowed firearms to be purchased from FFL dealers and sold to Mexican cartel members which used one of these weapons to murder a boarder patrol agent. Obama and holder hid information about this operation from congress under "executive privilege".

Let us also remember that the feds are STILL DOING IT.

Yeah, that's pretty bad.

Now, what do you think of a sitting president leading an insurection that injures hundreds of cops, and contributed to the deaths of 3-5? Is that ok with you?

 

[latheman78]

What's so hard about understanding that when a person can drive to the state next door, load up with 20 or more weapons with just a driver's license and a credit card, then drive home and sell the guns for a significant profit that there's going to be more deaths and crime due to those guns?

I will be not condescend due to your misinformation you have been told. The transaction you described is illegal on both the seller and the buyer in every one of the states in the USA, and I agree with the law. I can drive to the state next door, Arizona a state which only an Arizona I.D. is needed to privately buy a gun, without a background check, cash and carry like I came over and bought someone's used cement mixer. I show up with a California I.D. I can buy the gun, but it must be shipped to and held by a licensed firearm dealer in my State of California till I clear a background check and extra fees must be paid. Anyone want to call BS on what I said, go for it.

So you sir, you got all riled up because you were misinformed, you thought we were missing a law that was already in place in every state in the USA. Just another one of those laws, the criminals don't follow and could care less about. A law that responsible law abiding gun owners keep informed on. I often transport guns across state lines for recreational shooting, I keep abreast of how to legally transport guns and ammo, across state lines, but I am a law abiding gun owner.

Where did you get the bad info from, all anti gun people spread it, even Joe Biden.

 

[Milland]

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Mod Delete:
Trolling
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[latheman78]

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Mod Delete:
Insulting other members
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[kustomizer]

These signs are on the feed store in Salmon Idaho, they have never had a smash and grab or any other robbery.

My favorite is the gals wearing a six gun on their hip over a sun dress at the grocery store. Most every time we go to town there are a dozen or so open carry folks and who knows about concealed carry, we really don't have violent crime here, could this be why?

 

[crickets]

Yes, the hundreds of extra kids that get to grow up will be a major burden on society.

Oh, wait...

Listen, as an American you should be comfortable with the idea that kids' lives don't actually matter. We have a long history of violence and neglect not just in what is United States today, but all over the world. We have likely killed millions through the direct military action, and we probably have killed many more indirectly. I am not going to be moved emotionally by such appeals, because I am honest enough to see the big picture. That is not to say that it should be that way, and that we shouldn't make things better. Which is where you need to become impartial to the fact kids are involved, or that guns are involved, and got to start asking questions like "why violence", "why here", and ignore false analogies like England and Australia. We are not England, and we're not Australia. We have some unique socio-economic conditions that lead to this problem as a matter of motivation, and as long as you keep focusing on the tools you will never really solve it, because not only there are practical obstacles to removing the tools, but also doing so doesn't remove the motivation and alternative tools will emerge.

I guess the other thing to bring up is the War on Drugs. It has worked out great for us, right ?