Hamas strike on Israel.

[Radar987]

I find it odd that Americans will argue that the Jews have a right to take over Palestine because it was historically their home land, yet will argue against giving America back to the native Americans. Or Texas and most of the southwest back to Mexico.

Not really accurate because Jews were there originally, lost it, got some of it back, then gave a bunch of it back.

More importantly though, it's never really been about territory. Modern day Israel is tiny. They gave away all of Jordan and Sinai. Jerusalem is split. Surrounding Arab nations have historically rejected most peace deals since the 40s, because what they really want is the eradication of Jews.

 

[???]

I find it odd that Americans will argue that the Jews have a right to take over Palestine because it was historically their home land, yet will argue against giving America back to the native Americans. Or Texas and most of the southwest back to Mexico.

I find it odd that you use reason in an argument that is based on false assumptions while arguing with people that are not reasonable.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Not really accurate because Jews were there originally, lost it, got some of it back, then gave a bunch of it back.

More importantly though, it's never really been about territory. Modern day Israel is tiny. They gave away all of Jordan and Sinai. Jerusalem is split. Surrounding Arab nations have historically rejected most peace deals since the 40s, because what they really want is the eradication of Jews.

Are you saying the native Americans were not here first???? Or are you going to argue that since they were nomadic and did not have a proper legal system with "title" to the land they had no claim on it? If the latter, that is why I threw in the Texas/Mexico situation, Mexico had a legal system and "title" to the land, even America acknowledged that, until visions of "Manifest Destiny" clouded its judgement and they invaded Mexico and gave them the plata or plumbo option, rationalizing that as long as you make it legal, it is right.

Edit: America's manifest destiny argument is no different than the Israeli's chosen people argument.

For those that believe "might makes right", if you truly believe that, then you would believe that the Palestinians recent exercise of might, makes them right, for as long as they can hold onto the hostages.

 

[CalG]

The lighter side.

but not really....

"until I die, this land is mine" that includes the off shore oil!

 

[CalG]

For "American History", this guy wrote a book.... Just a slice though

Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

t have been a handsome man with the name "Face of a Cow" ;-)

 

[uria]

The hottest place in hell is reserved for those who in times of moral crisis maintain neutrality

 

[rons]

Ya know, Blinken has to be one of the most unfitting names possible for a Sec of State, 2nd only having that name as Secretary of Defense.

Each time he is shown speaking on TV he has more gray hair.

 

[rons]

I find it odd that Americans will argue that the Jews have a right to take over Palestine because it was historically their home land, yet will argue against giving America back to the native Americans. Or Texas and most of the southwest back to Mexico.

Those lands have changed ownership so many times.
In preschool kids are taught to share the crayons.

 

[Trboatworks]

More source material and a specifically relevant to this thread.
I had read this some years back as I was looking into some question I had at the time about the Jewish diaspora.
Very decent overview of the history of this contested territory.
Recommended reading:

Amazon.com

 

[Radar987]

Are you saying the native Americans were not here first???? Or are you going to argue that since they were nomadic and did not have a proper legal system with "title" to the land they had no claim on it?

Neither.

I'm saying that Jewish presence in the land that is modern day Israel dates back over 3000 years. The Kingdom of David was established around 1000BC.

 

[CarbideBob]

Neither.

I'm saying that Jewish presence in the land that is modern day Israel dates back over 3000 years. The Kingdom of David was established around 1000BC.

If one wants to go back as to who "owns" such lands ....Egypt and Rome? Before that?
Deals and agreements were made bad good or bad.
IMO Israel has the right to defend itself against all enemies foreign and domestic.
Yet this seems really bad right now. One wrong spark at the wrong time......

 

[michiganbuck]

Big stall at entering Gaza.

likely negotiating for freeing the kidnapped.
Bad guys want a million dollars each and a free ride to the USA with taking their knives and guns, and we are trying to fill the money sacks.
Likely the bad guys here will soon ask the USA to give thm their oun state, darn.
or not?
Our foolish lady public officials supporting the bad guys don’t realize under Sharia rule that they could not hold office. And many protesters don’t realize under Sharia rule they are target for getting their head chopped off.

 

[Radar987]

If one wants to go back as to who "owns" such lands ....Egypt and Rome?

The Kingdom of David predates Ancient Rome by centuries, and the Roman Empire by a thousand years.

That's beside the point anyway.

The point is that drawing parallels between Palestinians and Native Americans is far fetched at best.

 

[michiganbuck]

Who owned what is past. Who has the right to chop off my head is the problem.

 

[CarbideBob]

Who owned what is past. Who has the right to chop off my head is the problem.

Ask Mr Hoffa. You live in southeast Michigan.

 

[michiganbuck]

Ask Mr Hoffa. You live in southeast Michigan.
Very likely he is dead

 

[jim rozen]

"Or are you going to argue that since they were nomadic and did not have a proper legal system with "title" to the land they had no claim on it?"

Hey, come on here. We gave them all those free blankets.
With smallpox.

 

[Rob F.]

"Or are you going to argue that since they were nomadic and did not have a proper legal system with "title" to the land they had no claim on it?"

Hey, come on here. We gave them all those free blankets.
With smallpox.

First documented use of a bio weapon.....

 

[michiganbuck]

Very likely Egypt suspects, or knows that many of the guys wanting to cross their border are the same guys who raided Israel. Nobody wants those guys in their country.
Egyps likely hopes the USA will take them, and that is possible.
Let the stranded Gaza children look hungry and the USA will be quick to bring them all to the USA.

 

[Cole2534]

Very likely Egypt suspects, or knows that many of the guys wanting to cross their border are the same guys who raided Israel. Nobody wants those guys in their country.
Egyps likely hopes the USA will take them, and that is possible.

I gotta think the IDF will get them. From what I've read, that is some of the most heavily surveilled land on earth and they're damn good at ID.